Comments from Alejandro in Chile

Alejandro : I find this to be a very interesting topic. I would like to simply add that one of my teachers at the center where I study Japanese here in Chile seems to dislike using the word 'gaijin' as well, and prefers 'gaikokujin'. Her rationale was, if I remember correctly, that, while 'gaijin' is not derogatory in itself, 'gaikokujin' suggests a respect for the other person (being more formal), whereas the former has no such connotation, and could therefore be interpreted as being impolite.







Yuri : Alejandro, thank you for reading and answering.


Most Japanese people say the word “gaijin” without knowing that.


It might be causing troubles between people from foreign countries and Japanese. What can we do for that???

My Answers to Columbine

(C=Columbine, Y=Yuri)




C : ユリさんの質問に関しては、ちょっと複雑と思います。






Y : I didn’t know the issue was controversial or complicated.


この問題が物議を醸しているとも複雑だとも知りません でした。


Thank you for answering.


答えてくださってありがとうございます。










C : 外国人は日本について学び始めると、必ず『日本人は外 国の事をよく分からない』や　『日本人に取って、外国 人が宇宙人みたいん』の意見を聞いています。それはや っぱり正しくないですが、何か普通になりました。






Y : Yes, the comments are right. Most Japanese people don’t know or understand foreign countries well. Let me say this, though, many people in foreign countries don’t understand Japan.


その通りです。ほとんどの日本人は外国のことを知らな いし、理解していません。でも言わせていただければ、 外国にいる外国人の方たちは、日本を理解していません 。










C : もちろん、その意見は大学で、日本人の友達で、直して いますが、日本の社会をよく分からないの人の中で、そ のような意見に信じている人はいっぱいんです。






Y : Those comments about Japanese people are correct, I’d say.


Most Japanese people have never met people from foreign countries. When those people first meet a person from a foreign country, the Japanese people would be so impressed and overreact.


私としては、そういうコメントは正しいと思います。


外国人の方に会ったことがない日本人はたくさんいます 。そういう人たち初めて外国の方にお会いしたら、もの すごく驚いて過剰反応するでしょう。


And I think you would say you don’t understand why those Japanese people are surprised meeting foreigners.


でも多分あなたは、どうして日本人が外国人と会ったか らといって驚くのか、わからないでしょうね。


Have you imagined that you have never met people who are not your race?


人種の違う人と会ったことがなかったらと、想像してみ たことはありますか？










C : それにも、日本の社会に着いて勉強し始めるの人でも、 他の外人から変な意見と聞いています。「日本人があな たの事を『外人』と呼ぶ、悪口だ。人種差別的な響きが ある.」だから、日本人は「外人」を付けると、外国人達、「実は、日本人さんは私の事がすきじゃないの？ばか


にするの？」と心配します。






Y : I see. I didn’t know the word was such infamous. I got it.


そうだったんですか。そんなに評判の悪い言葉だとは知 りませんでした。










C : 多分、この考え違いの理由は:


1)英語で、人を国籍で呼ぶのは人種差別的な響きがあります。たとえば『ジャップ』『パッキ (パキスタン人）』






Y : I know that “Jap” is a derogatory term, but how about “Japanese”?


If I call you English, is that a discrimination?










C : ２）ある子どもは外国人を見ると「あ、外人！外人だ！ 」道の中に呼ぶので、日本人の大人も「外人」を付ける 、何か子どもぽいです。みて、みて、僕のペット外人の 感じがあります。






Y : If there are many people from Western countries in Japan, those children wouldn’t say like that.


もし西洋の方が大勢日本にいたしたら、そういう子供た ちもそんなことは言わないと思いますよ。


However, when you are called gaijin loudly on the street, you would hate it. I understand it.


でも、道で大声で外人と呼ばれたら、嫌ですよね。わか ります。










C : ３）有名な人は「外人」は悪事と言います。たとえば、 デビト。






Y : Columbine, sorry; I don’t see what this sentence means.


Who is デビト?


(This man was ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou)










C : 4)自分の国にいるでも、日本語に取ってまだ『外人』です。そして、それが好きじゃないんです。






Y : I know that! I have heard it many times.


I’d like to write a bit about this issue later.










C : and various other reasons.






For me, I don't mind being called 'gaijin' by someone I don't know, unless it's people openly pointing and bawling it, or kids making a fuss, then I might tell them (in japanese) that they're being rude.






Y : In the city in Japan, I think such things would not happen, while in rural places, it’s likely.










C : I don't mind if a friend uses it now and then as a joke, or ironically, but I don't like it when people use it all the time. Even if ~you~ don't think it's got a bad meaning, the foreign community generally does, so if I let everyone call me 'gaijin' all the time, I'll have to deal with my foreign friends asking me why I allow it, don't I find it demeaning, don't I realize it's a bad thing, and so on.






Y : I see. I will never say “gaijin” anymore.










C : Also it lumps us all together, like it doesn't matter who or where we come from, the thing is we're Not-Japanese.






Y : Yes, the Japanese people like to lumps people all together.


We often lump ourselves all together. It may be difficult to understand why you don’t like to be lumped together to most Japanese people.










C : I've also had conversations like "gaijin cause a lot of crime in Japan; these days loads of drug dealers and prostitutes are gaijin....






Y : I agree with you!


I’m sure that there are more Japanese criminals than foreign criminals, but the Japanese people like to say so.










C : Oh, Hi Columbine! Everyone, this is my friend Columbine, she's gaijin." I think you can see why sometimes it's really frustrating!






Y : I must say here there are differences.


In Japan, if one of my friends come to with someone, and said “this is my friend, and she is gaijin”, other friends and I would be really interested in the person, and try to be friends with the person.


And I would say “I have a foreign friend!” to many other friends.


I believe that many Japanese people want to be friends with foreign people, but they can’t because of the language.






If I was in England and my friend said “this is my friend, and she is gaijin”, I would feel nothing, and say “Hi, I’m Japanese.”






I’m sorry; I don’t understand what you feel.










C : Also if you're white, a lot of Japanese people seem to think 'gaijin' means 'american', so it can be annoying for Europeans to be introduced as 'gaijin' and then get asked about America.






Y : OK, this is understandable.


It must be frustrating.


I am really sorry to hear that.










C : So for me, if you have to refer to me by something other than my name, please use my actual nationality, イギリス人、or I'd rather be called 外国人 than がいじん、even if it's more formal. The formality actually means that both the japanese people using it and all the foreigners KNOW for sure there's no bad meaning.






Y : I will say外国人 or イギリス人.


Your comments are really instructive and helpful. (^_^)/~~


勉強になりました。どうもありがとう。

Columbine’s Comments

Hi Yuri (^_^)



This is a really interesting topic.






If you have any questions about the changes i've made, please ask me.






ユリさんの質問に関しては、ちょっと複雑と思います。 外国人は日本について学び始めると、必ず『日本人は外 国の事をよく分からない』や　『日本人に取って、外国 人が宇宙人みたいん』の意見を聞いています。それはや っぱり正しくないですが、何か普通になりました。もち ろん、その意見は大学で、日本人の友達で、直していま すが、日本の社会をよく分からないの人の中で、そのよ うな意見に信じている人はいっぱいんです。それにも、 日本の社会に着いて勉強し始めるの人でも、他の外人か ら変な意見と聞いています。「日本人があなたの事を『 外人』と呼ぶ、悪口だ。人種差別的な響きがある.」だから、日本人は「外人」を付けると、外国人達、「実は、日本人さんは私の事がすきじゃないの？ばかにするの？」と心配します。多分、この考え違いの理由は:






1)英語で、人を国籍で呼ぶのは人種差別的な響きがあります。たとえば『ジャップ』『パッキ (パキスタン人）』


２）ある子どもは外国人を見ると「あ、外人！外人だ！ 」道の中に呼ぶので、日本人の大人も「外人」を付ける 、何か子どもぽいです。みて、みて、僕のペット外人の 感じがあります。


３）有名な人は「外人」は悪事と言います。たとえば、 デビト。


4)自分の国にいるでも、日本語に取ってまだ『外人』です。そして、それが好きじゃないんです。






and various other reasons.






For me, I don't mind being called 'gaijin' by someone I don't know, unless it's people openly pointing and bawling it, or kids making a fuss, then I might tell them (in japanese) that they're being rude. I don't mind if a friend uses it now and then as a joke, or ironically, but I don't like it when people use it all the time. Even if ~you~ don't think it's got a bad meaning, the foreign community generally does, so if I let everyone call me 'gaijin' all the time, I'll have to deal with my foreign friends asking me why I allow it, don't I find it demeaning, don't I realize it's a bad thing, and so on.


Also it lumps us all together, like it doesn't matter who or where we come from, the thing is we're Not-Japanese. I've also had conversations like "gaijin cause a lot of crime in Japan; these days loads of drug dealers and prostitutes are gaijin.... Oh, Hi Columbine! Everyone, this is my friend Columbine, she's gaijin." I think you can see why sometimes it's really frustrating! Also if you're white, a lot of Japanese people seem to think 'gaijin' means 'american', so it can be annoying for Europeans to be introduced as 'gaijin' and then get asked about America.


So for me, if you have to refer to me by something other than my name, please use my actual nationality, イギリス人、or I'd rather be called 外国人 than がいじん、even if it's more formal. The formality actually means that both the japanese people using it and all the foreigners KNOW for sure there's no bad meaning.

Gaijin

Wikipedia says that Gaijin (外人) is a Japanese word meaning "non-Japanese", or "alien".



I have heard foreign people hate being called “gaijin”. Is that right?


I went on a trip in Japan with an American friend a few years ago. When we took a taxi, I was talking to the driver in Japanese and I said the word “gaijin” in the conversation.


My friend wasn’t able to understand Japanese. She had started studying Japanese, but she didn’t even know how to say “mother” or “father”.


However, she seemed to catch the word “gaijin”, and got upset.


Most Japanese people believe that “gaijin” means “people from foreign countries” without any further meaning. We can say “gaikokujin（外国人）” and “gaikoku kara irasshatta kata（外国からいらっしゃった方）”, but the first one sounds too formal and the second one is too long to say.


Since I didn’t know my friend didn’t like to be called “gaijin”, that I was shocked to know she was angry.


I believe the definitions in Wiki are a bit wrong. The Japanese people don’t mean anything negative by the word.


I’d like to know why and how the word has become associated with a bad meaning or impression.


If you know any reasons, let me know, please.


And, what should I say instead of gaijin???






Thank you.










Columbine, thanks for helping.

Nightmares

This is what I have been dreaming of in the past week.
About one week ago, I bought a lot of herrings in a dream.
I bought too many herrings, so I didn't feel like cooking them.
After that the herrings appeared in my dreams every night. I knew I should hurry up, or the fish would go rotten, but I didn’t. You probably know the feeling that you should finish a difficult task before it's too late, right? For example; preparing for an examination in school or cleaning the fan in the kitchen. When you postpone tough things to do, you feel uncomfortable, don’t you?
I have been feeling uneasy over the past week without knowing why.
This morning I dreamed I finally picked up one of the herrings. It was rotten.
I put many rotten herrings into a plastic bag. Fortunately, the last one was safe!
I sliced the fish and baked it with potato in my dream.
And that's how my nightmares ended.

Thank you.

Koir, JamboP26 and Columbine, thank you!

Japanese Honorifics

One of my American friends asked me two questions about Japan. This was one of them.

The Contract318 : My first question is: What is the meaning of calling someone _____chan vs _____san. In my Japanese class we are called by our last names with san at the end, which I think means Mr./Mrs. However, many times in manga people say "-chan" at the end. Is this something said just between friends?

Answer : Yes.

The Japanese language has five common honorifics to add at the end of names of people.
“San”, “chan”, “kun” “sama” and “dono”.
“Dono” is used scarcely. You write it when you direct letters to lower ranking people. That means that writing the honorific makes you appear bossy.
When my younger brother has wrote to me using it, I got angry and complained. He said that he writes many letters to his patients with the honorific every day, and he had used it out of pure habit. He is a doctor. I believe he is arrogant.
I think only Tennoh (the Japanese Emperor) can use that when he writes to Japanese people.
When you write letters, you must write “sama”.
“Sama” is also used to call customers. Shop assistants and clerks usually address their customers with “sama”.
By the way, we call god/gods “kamisama”. This “sama” is the honorific.

When you call your boss and fellow workmates, you should add “san” to their family names.
If you are very elderly, you can address young subordinates with “kun”. However, I don’t recommend it.
If you are a male student, you would address your male friends with “kun” or just their names without an honorific, and would address your female friends with “san”. If the person is your girlfriend, you can address her without an honorific as well.
If you are a female student, you would address your female friends with “san”. When the friends are very close, you can address them with “chan”.
When you are an adult, you must be very friendly to address friends with “chan” or to be addressed with “chan”.

Is it complicated?
Don’t worry. You can always say “san”.
Good luck!
Thank you!!


Koir, ColinHowel and Columbine, thanks for helping!

What “Freeter” Is

If you write the Japanese word フリーター in English, it would be “freeter” (both singular and plural), and that means a person or people who work(s) part-time.
Once one of my English teachers asked me what “freeter” was.
I wasn’t able to explain that then because it’s really complicated.
Let me try it here.
Freeter is a shortened version of “freearbeiter”.
“Free” is from the English word “freelancing”, and “arbeit” is from the German word “arbeiten”(work).
Then, the last part “er” is the English way to make nouns from verbs. For example, play and player.
Arbeiten is pronounced arubaito in Japan, which means part time job(s). The origin is that medical students used to say they “arbeiten” when they cut corpses to study human bodies. They meant it was hard work. My father (who is a surgeon) used to say that cutting corpse heads in two is tiring activity. Japanese medical students studied German because early Japanese medical information was from Germany. This word has spread and been changed to mean 'part time work'.
Anyway, “arbeiter” means “part time worker” now.
In this word “freeter”, “free” means “without permanent position” or “freelancing”, and many young people can’t get permanent positions recently. Most of them become freeter. You might think “freelancing” implies independence and flexibility, but these people only have instability. They can earn little.
This is a big problem in Japan. I guess your country might be so, too.

Thank you.



Koir, Columbine, dogsbody70, ColinHowell and JamboP26, thanks a lot!